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FBI allegedly breaks up major 'bot software' ring with Wiseguy Tickets indictments
Several principals with Wiseguy Tickets, a Nevada-based wholesale ticket broker, were recently indicted for alleged cyber crimes for using "bot" software programs to illegally obtain more than 1 million tickets for popular concerts and sporting events from Ticketmaster and other companies.
According to the 60-page federal court indictment released today, March 1, California residents Kenneth Lowson, 40; Kristofer Kirsch, 37; Faisal Nahdi, 36; and Joel Stevenson, 37, allegedly hacked into the Web sites of Ticketmaster, Live Nation (which now owns Ticketmaster) and Major League Baseball, among others, over a several-year period to obtain the tickets. Lowson is also known as "Money" and Kirsch also goes by the alias "Robert Woods," according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
"Wiseguy Tickets, Inc. ("Wiseguys"), a Nevada corporation, used fraudulent misrepresentations and computer hacking to purchase tickets surreptitiously over the Internet to concerts, sporting events, and other forms of live entertainment ("Events") throughout the United States. To achieve this goal, Wiseguys deployed a nationwide computer network that opened thousands of simultaneous Internet connections from across the United States; impersonated thousands of individual ticket buyers; and defeated online ticket vendors' security mechanisms. When online ticket vendors tried to stop Wiseguys from engaging in this conduct, Wiseguys adapted its methods and continued. Through these fraudulent and unauthorized steps, among others, Wiseguys and its owners made more than $20 million in profits while purchasing more than 1 million tickets to Events nationwide," the indictment states.
The four were indicted in New Jersey because the company allegedly resold illegally obtained tickets to some unnamed ticket brokers in the state, but according to the indictment the company had customers around the country. Wiseguys allegedly employed computer programmers, and utilized servers, in Bulgaria, among other locations, to carry out the alleged scheme.
Bruce Springsteen, Miley Cyrus, Kenny Chesney and Bon Jovi were among the acts Wiseguys allegedly obtained tickets for while using bots, according to published reports.
The charges include Obtaining Information from a Protected Computer; Accessing a Protected Computer with Intent to Defraud; Transmitting a Program That Causes Unauthorized Damage; and Wire Fraud.
"It was the object of the conspiracy to profit by defrauding Online Ticket Vendors and others through circumventing computer code and surreptitiously obtaining and then reselling Event tickets that Online Ticket Vendors would not otherwise sell to Wiseguys," the indictment states.
Over the past couple of years, authorities in several states, in addition to the federal government, have been trying to crack down on the use of bots, which are computer programs that can worm their way past online security measures to scoop up large blocks of tickets. Several states have outlawed the use of bots, and Ticketmaster even allegedly tightened up its own security and blocked several brokers that the company suspected were using them.
A spokesperson for Live Nation Entertainment did not return a message seeking comment.
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It seems like most of the issues with their conduct have to do with violating TicketMaster's Terms of Service rather than federal laws. I really only see one law that was broken -- stealing the code to help their buying. Obviously more laws were broken than this, but it would be interesting to hear an explanation of how the jump got made from violating TM's TOS to breaking laws.
Conspiracy to commit fraud, Obtaining Information from a Protected Computer (9 counts), Accessing a Protected Computer with Intent to Defraud, (10 counts), Transmitting a Program That Causes Unauthorized Damage (6 counts), Wire Fraud (15 Counts).
what about big time financial firms using algorithms to trade stocks faster then whats humanly possible and making not 25 million over 7 years but at billions upon billions of dollars all at the expense of real pension funds and companies money not tickets to some band....if it's illegal to do something faster with a computer program these firms are more guilty if it's not than they're innocent just like wiseguys
Is not trading stocks using algorithms that its illegal. As a matter of fact all financial firms have their own proprietary network to execute such trades. The only disadvantage is at the retail level; depending on the type of trading account you posses. The illegal acts that the government and SEC should really considering reviewing is the trading of what is known as "dark pools". It is illegal and although well known in the industry now one comments on it.
That's apples to oranges. These Wiseguys needs to go to prison for about 10 years. People like this are dirt bags that hurt the secondary market. Hope you get the max!
Not any worse then what are government does to each and every one of you assholes!!! But that's OK, Right????
if they were hacking into the financial system to do so it would be illegal. these ticket guys hacked their way in.
yeah you're right it is the stock market is way way more important than tickets. Apples and oranges is why the analogy works so good. Actually it's more like very expensive and important apples vs. garden variety apples.
It is more like a bad apple spoils entire basket of good apples.
As far as finance industry goes, it is governed by laws and regulations and in that industry we experienced greedy CEOs, bad business practice, insider trading and so forth.
Guess what they get punished too and so should be these so called "Wise" guys.
As a broker community we are responsible for "unregulated" secondary market reputation and should not seek wrong routes to get tickets, otherwise you are no longer "wise" but " unwise" crooks.
This is first time I praise TM as they have guts to go after bad apple, rather every other secondary market broker is busy in ripping profits (guess what it is not responsibility of any brokers, exchange or summit responsibility expose these bad apples and still wanted to be treated as leader for secondary market).
It is time for secondary market to do self introspection.
>>>Guess what they get punished too and so should be these so called "Wise" guys.
who gets punished? not the ones making millions off automated sanctioned trading systems far more advanced then wiseguys ticket buying bots...
Wise guys didn't steal anything they just made automated systems that could buy tickets faster period that's it, that's all they did. is that wrong? maybe...illegal maybe...not sure but it certainly is very comparable to automated stock trading that gives certain companies big advantages in the business world and it's totally legal there...
>>>This is first time I praise TM as they have guts to go after bad apple
Where does it say TM went after them...it's the Feds not TM...TM sent them a few letters and actually probably aided them because instead of really going after them they sat back and used crappy free software to try and block them rather than employing new techniques to stop them or cancelling any of their orders...read the indictment TM let this go on for years
>>>>who gets punished? not the ones making millions off automated sanctioned trading systems far more advanced then wiseguys ticket buying bots...
those systems are industry approved and also regulated. Those systems are accessible to typical stock trader/owner. Certainly that provided a platform for all stock customer to trade fairly and that is called exchange, not BOT. Anything related to hacking is unlawful and must be punished.
>>>>Where does it say TM went after them...it's the Feds not TM...TM sent them a few letters and actually probably aided them because instead of really going after them they sat back and used crappy free software to try and block them rather than employing new techniques to stop them or cancelling any of their orders...read the indictment TM let this go on for years
Read between the lines, TM provided all supporting documents to Fed, of course TM is not a legal entity to prosecute, it is judiciary system and TM provided all evidences to them to go after these un"wise" guys. As far as TM software goes it is most advanced and reliable in industry related to its peers or other small players. As far as TM cancelled their orders or not, only TM and un"wise" can admit otherwise time will tell its story.
>>>read the indictment TM let this go on for years.
So many illegal activities goes on for years, it doesn't mean that somebody is harboring or simply overlooking, as systems are getting more sophisticated so does crooks. It sounds like RMG incidence we forget so easily and still this practice is continued. Bottom line illegal is illegal, doesn't matter who does it primary or secondary and both should be treated as per law.
>>Those systems are accessible to typical stock trader/owner.
not true....theres several companies out there utilizing in-house software that use bots to make stock trades and arbitrage the stock market just like wise guys arbitraged the ticket market. Are they regulated? sure, so wise guys should be regulated not tried in a federal court and thrown in jail...maybe? Not sure? This brings me back to my first point...tickets aren't as vital to the economy as stocks are so the reason why they aren't regulated as much is because they're a luxury item. So basically wiseguys are getting punished for being capitalists is it wrong or illegal i guess the courts will decide
>>>not true....theres several companies out there utilizing in-house software that use bots to make stock trades and arbitrage the stock market
Do you mean when stock market is open, they run the bot software to trade stock, rather than average John is doing trade on eTrade or Scottrade or if I am from Kansas called my broker over phone and he would do transaction for me?
Do you imagine why IPOs are governed so well vs. tickets primary sell?
Finance industry is far mature and experience industry then secondary ticket market, as that is in reality bloomed only after internet made public, otherwise it was a street guy business and who you know. Internet helped so many new brokers to enter and evolve in secondary ticket market, also at the same time crooked people took disadvantage of it.
If anybody's car is capable of driving 200 mph, it doesn't give anyone a permission to defy all traffic rules and take "dis"advantage of speed.
It is certain that before ticket industry gets mature, broker community has to act maturely in order to gain respect, so we are in era of "growing pain"
>>If anybody's car is capable of driving 200 mph, it doesn't give anyone a permission to >>defy all traffic rules and take "dis"advantage of speed.
talk about apples and oranges now this analogy is just silly, a car is lethal 2000-6000 pound piece of machinery....need i say more i doubt it...
>>Do you mean when stock market is open, they run the bot software to trade stock, rather >>than average John is doing trade on eTrade or Scottrade or if I am from Kansas called >>my broker over phone and he would do transaction for me?
yeah they trade stock faster than everybody so they can arbitrage it to stock buyers/sellers just like wiseguys bought tickets fast so they could arbitrage tickets to buyers and sellers....granted these financial companies have to move a ton of stock but even though they make pennies on the transactions they make a helluva lot more money than wiseguys did
>>Do you imagine why IPOs are governed so well vs. tickets primary sell?
yeah this part they got right...IPOS should be governed better because you're talking about whole companies going public not luxury items that a billion people don't care about (tickets)
>>It is certain that before ticket industry gets mature, broker community has to act >>maturely in order to gain respect, so we are in era of "growing pain"
i kind of understand where you are coming from but ticketmaster and other vendors have to become more mature and make their sites better...they have to think of better ways than free services on the cheap (recaptcha) to prevent against bots and start putting their money where their mouth is about preventing bots...If they want to they can...they have the resources now...heck look at the bonuses their leaders got for the merger...