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Ticketing bills in Congress: Two different approaches at protecting consumers
Fri, Mar 12th 2010 5:31 pm EDT
By Alfred Branch Jr.
(This story was updated on Friday, March 12, 2010 at 4:40pm EST to add a comment from StubHub)
With the introduction of the Ticket Act of 2010, two bills are currently in the House Energy and Commerce Committee that aim to regulate the ticketing industry and protect consumers. Yet, the bills take different approaches, and it appears that the two lead sponsors of the two bills may not have consulted with each other before the second bill was initiated.
The fact that two different bills on the same topic land in a congressional subcommittee at the same time is not unique, according to Paul Brubaker, communications director for New Jersey Rep. Bill Pascrell, Jr., a Democrat who introduced the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing Act (BOSS ACT) last summer. And Brubaker was quick to add that the two bills are not in competition with each other.
"The congressman’s [Pascrell] primary focus will continue to be on providing the best protection for consumers in the ticket-selling marketplace through the BOSS ACT. Hopefully, Representatives Matheson and Terry are just as concerned about consumer protection as Representative Pascrell," Brubaker told TicketNews.
Rep. Jim Matheson, a Utah Democrat, and Rep. Lee Terry, a Nebraska Republican who co-sponsored the proposal, introduced the bill this week, and it calls for consumers to be protected from legal action by primary ticket issuers if the consumer tries to resell a ticket. The bill also requires primary or secondary ticket providers to offer full refunds if an event is or ticket is cancelled, or if the seat location has been misrepresented.
In addition, the Matheson bill also supports total ticket transferability, meaning all versions of tickets, whether paper or paperless (digital), must be able to be resold.
Alyson Heyrend, communications director for Rep. Matheson, said the idea for the bill came following discussions with representatives from eBay and its StubHub division. She did not elaborate on the nature of the lobbying effort.
"It is our policy not to comment on our specific lobbying efforts," Glenn Lehrman, a spokesperson for StubHub, told TicketNews. "I can tell you that we are constantly dialoguing with public policy officials on the fan interests promoted by a vibrant and open secondary marketplace in events tickets."
Pascrell's bill is more requires ticket brokers to register with the Federal Trade Commission; requires primary ticket companies release information on the number of tickets available for an event; and has a 48-hour window after tickets initially go on sale before registered brokers can buy and begin reselling tickets to an event.
The bill also has extensive transparency requirements, including primary ticketers disclosing printing and other fees, and secondary ticket companies disclosing the face value of the ticket and its source.
Pascrell's bill has received 17 co-sponsors, but neither Matheson nor Terry are among them. Both Brubaker and Heyrend said they did not know whether Pascrell or Matheson talked prior to the introduction of the second bill.
Without speaking on the specifics of the two bills, Washington DC-based attorney David Balto, who was involved with the anti-Ticketmaster/Live Nation merger movement, told TicketNews that he is pleased to see congress seemingly taking a serious look at ticketing regulations and consumer protections.
"It's very important. There needs to be greater transparency in the primary and secondary ticket marketplace," he said. "In addition, consumer sovereignty is needed when they buy a ticket for an event because they own that ticket and should be able to do what they want with it."
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Comments represent the opinions of users and do not necessarily reflect the views of TicketNews.I always see the argument that brokers take tickets out of the hands of "real fans." Even here I see someone wrote: "Every ticket that is purchased with the intent to resell for a profit takes one less ticket from a person who actually wants to go to the show because they are a fan."
Personally, I think anyone willing to pay more than face value (sometimes obscenely more) is probably a "real fan." The brokers aren't going to the shows after all. And they didn't buy the tickets to hang them on their walls. They bought them . . . well, to sell to a person who actually wants to go to the show because they are a fan.
(And I'm not a broker, by the way.)
I agree that people should be able to re-sell tickets for whatever price the market will bear. However, you are either a fool or a deliberate disseminator of disinformation if you think brokers have no advantage over real fans. Brokers pay off employees at ticket outlets to pull seats for them. Brokers often have relationships with promoters, venues, teams, or employees which allows them to get tickets that are never offered to the public. Brokers employ illegal devices to bypass security measures and get tickets the microsecond that they go onsale. Those are the things that laws should address - the bribery and illegal acquisition of tickets. Not the resale of properly acquired tickets. Put some promoters, brokers, etc. in jail for bribery, fraud, and tax evasion and THEN you'll see tickets more fairly distributed.
You're right -- there should be punishments for breaking the rules that are out there. I'm willing to wager that if caught taking bribes for seats, a ticket outlet employee will lose their job. And Ticketmaster has taken brokers to court over the use of illegal devices and automated systems. Just like in any industry, the secondary ticket market has it's share of bad apples. The problem is, the public believes the majority of brokers use these tactics. And that's not true -- it is a very small minority. It doesn't have as much of an effect as the media and public think. Most brokers are honest, tax-paying, hard-working individuals who obtain tickets fairly and sell them fairly as well.
It's not brokers who have an advantage over real fans. Anyone who is willing to make the payoff or use the software has the advantage -- it doesn't necessarily have to be a broker.
So how do you get your tickets then?
I get my tickets just like any "real fan" would get them. I sit in front of the computer at 10am on a Tuesday morning when they go on sale and do searches on Ticketmaster. Or I use a radio station or venue presale password that I'm provided with because I join lists just like a "real fan" can. And I give sports teams $20,000 for season tickets 6 months before the season starts then break them up into single games to sell.
I don't have illegal software, (although I might be a bit quicker at the Ticketmaster system because I use it every day and am familiar with it), I don't have inside sources, and I don't have a special 800 number that gets me the best seats before anyone else can get them. And I run every purchase and sale through accounting software and pay my taxes, (but with everything being on credit cards it's not like I could hide anything from the IRS anyway).
I can guarantee you that the way I've bought every single one of my tickets is the EXACT same way any "real fan" can buy tickets. I just happen to put a lot of effort, research and thought into the process because I do it for a living.
This is how the majority of brokers make their living -- not by paying people off or cheating the system.
Why don't these politicians get a life, in this crappy economy if a Ticket brokers has to find a way to make money good for him
Why don't these loser politicians go after the scums on Wall Street or the Oil Companies
Oh that is right, because they are a giant they know they can't defeat, so they have to go after the person who is an easy target
How does a bill that protects broker's rights to buy as many tickets as they can before real fans can buy them do anything to protect consumers?
Brokers are consumers, too.
And I'm not sure how this allows brokers "to buy as many tickets as they can before real fans". "Real fans" have the same access to presale tickets as brokers do. "Real fans" can buy as many tickets as they want and sell the ones they don't use.
The only difference between a "real fan" and a broker is that the broker buys with the intent to resell -- they have no advantage or magic wand that lets them buy up all the tickets. And remember, "real fans" purchase, on average, 95% of the available tickets for a show directly from the primary source. As a result, brokers don't tend to have more than 5-10% of a venue's capacity for any given event, and the vast majority of people attending the event got their tickets, at face value, straight from the primary agent.
One other thing -- everyone should be allowed to purchase a ticket with the intent to resell. If someone wants to buy something with the hope that it will increase in value, and is willing to take the risk that it may decrease in value, (which happens at least 40% of the time with tickets), there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to do it. Especially considering the system is fair and anyone who wants to try and make a buck off a ticket is welcome to do so -- there are no barriers preventing it.
I absolutely do not agree. Tickts should only be allowed to be sold or resold as the artist performing at the event intends.
Every ticket that is purchased with the intent to resell for a profit takes one less ticket from a person who actually wants to go to the show because they are a fan and there's nothing you can say that will ever get me to agree that that is ok.
there's nothing you can say that will ever get me to agree that that is ok.
You must wear horse blinders, with that narrow minded comment. Let me ask you this, will you sell your house to someone for the same price you paid?
why dont you move to the former communist russia. in america on ANY PRODUCT its free market jewlerey , game boys, video games of any kind, stocks & bonds, resataurent gift cards or anything of value that can go up or down and is bought to be able to resell.
if you dont like americas free market society move someplace else and live like a communist as u are anti competition that means u r anti american.
BUT ill agree with you ONLY IF YOU BAN ALL RESALE OF ANYTHING IN AMERICA not just tickets. that makes you a hyprocrite.
Is it because a ticket can appreciate in value or because there are a limited supply of them? Or because the intended use doesn't agree with what you think it should be?
If there's a run on Wii systems a Christmas and I get the last one with 100 people left standing in line behind me, should I be told that I cannot do whatever I want with that Wii?
Tell me more about how tickets are different from other consumer goods and why the resale of them should be any different than anything else that can be purchased.
Tell me more about how tickets are different from other consumer goods and why the resale of them should be any different than anything else that can be purchased.
That's what makes this topic so debatable. A "ticket" is not a consumer good in the true sense of the word, it's more like a receipt for the purchase of a service that you're going to receive on the given future date.
Buying a Wii is much different because there are many different ways to find one - especially if you have access to the internets - and they continue to make them, whereas a concert happens once and it's over. Some people bought a ton of Wii-s when they first came out and took advantage of the short supply by selling them at inflated prices, but as a consumer you can be patient until the supply is replenished and pay the regular price. Live event goers don't have this luxury.
"Live event goers now have this luxury" of being gouged by their artist and hide it under, "Experience Packages", or as you wrote, "a receipt for the purchase of a service" Let me know how long you enjoy those prices. Now that Irving is at the helm you are gonna see it more often. You thought brokers were bad. You have not seen nothing yet, Azoff is like Chaney. PURE EVIL!!!!
"Buying a Wii is much different because there are many different ways to find one - especially if you have access to the internet"
I'd argue that there are many different ways to find a ticket as well. At a Ticketmaster authorized store, a Ticketmaster outlet, online, over the phone, etc. And after that, there are literally thousands of websites on which to find a ticket.
"And they continue to make them, whereas a concert happens once and it's over. Some people bought a ton of Wii-s when they first came out and took advantage of the short supply by selling them at inflated prices, but as a consumer you can be patient until the supply is replenished and pay the regular price. Live event goers don't have this luxury."
Concerts happen in city after city and year after year. So live event goers do have the luxury -- they may choose a different event date in a nearby city, or wait until the next tour, (which rarely tends to be as popular as a previously sold-out tour).
Ticketmaster in our area, no longer have outlets. We are forced to use, internet or phone to buy their tickets. This is how they can jack us on fees, unless we take a drive to the box office. But even there for the Eagles, we still had to pay those all in fees. So now that TM/LN are combined, expect to see authorized locations continue to disappear.
They use companies employees to peddle their tickets and still probably managed to charge the business selling their tickets, cause that is the only way ticketbastard operates, charges everyone for doing business. Wish I could pay discount on my tickets, like they do the brokers who upload. To get around it, We just charge more, to make up for their gouging and offer deals to the ones who call or to our customers.