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Ticketmaster blocks dozens of brokers from accessing its Web site
In what appears to be a large-scale action against dozens of ticket brokers all at once, Ticketmaster has begun to systematically block access to its Web site for hours or days at a time.
The blockages appear to be generally geared toward brokers who heavily access the site looking for tickets, which on the surface might indicate that Ticketmaster believes that these brokers may be using automated software to do so, software that in some cases is called "bot software," which has been outlawed in several states.
There are no firm estimates on how many brokers may use, or have used, such software, but because of the attention it received following the Hannah Montana ticketing debacle in 2007 and 2008, most brokers simply don't want to endure the hassles associated with using such applications. Many others don't use it because they want to continue to elevate the industry by playing fairly.
But, what TicketNews has learned is that dozens of brokers who claim they are not using such software have also been blocked, which has taken place periodically over the last couple of weeks.
What makes this alleged situation different than in the past is that Ticketmaster's current measures are supposedly more sophisticated now than simply blocking computer IP addresses, something the company has done for years. The company has temporarily blocked IP addresses of brokers it believed were over accessing its Web site, but the sheer number of blocked brokers, and the perceived or apparent ability to block specific computers within a particular IP address appears to be an aggressive new development.
"This [the current blocking of hundreds of brokers] was the biggest threat to brokering that I can remember," said one secondary ticketing executive.
The issue raises potential business profitability questions for Ticketmaster, which owns its own secondary ticket Web site, TicketsNow, which some of the brokers that were blocked also use to resell tickets.
In addition, the situation also raises the specter of how much control Ticketmaster has over the industry if it can, seemingly at will, systematically shut off access to tickets for certain brokers. Ticketmaster's market dominance has been criticized for years, especially now considering its proposed merger with Live Nation.
Ticketmaster spokesperson Hannah Kampf did not respond to questions about the company's alleged blocking of brokers. For the most part, the blocking would last for several hours, but in some cases would last for a couple of days.
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To everyone who is bitching about ticket brokers "stealing all the good tickets": Why don't you stop whining, and wake up early at the presale/onsale times to get the tickets for the show you want to see. That's exactly what brokers do. Just because you're too lazy to be on time for a presale/onsale doesn't give you the right to whine about others who are on top of it. If you're not getting your tickets, then it's your own fault. Grow a pair a stop whining. Whining gets you nowhere in life. If you want something bad enough, you'll make the effort and have no problem getting what you want. If you haven't learned that yet, then good luck with life.
I'm a normal user of TicketMaster and I only buy tickets two and a time for me and my partner. Sometimes I'll access the same event a number of times before buying tickets because I may want ones in a specific area. Because I access the site like this, TicketMaster has decided that I'm an automated program and now I'm blocked from using the site. Surely I can't be the only normal user affected by this block?
And when contacting customer service there is no help provided, only the suggestion to use another operating system. Sigh...
Wow looks like Ticketmaster blocked me
I don't even check alot, I might check a few things every day at the most, maybe ticketmaster is blocking people who buy large amounts of tickets through them
Ticketmaster will soon gain a monopoly over the ticket industry, but I bet it will bite them in the ass
There's a 'band-aid' fix for this. Its called DSL. Get DSL and depending on which modem they give you, there are small scripts out there (available on the net) that when ran, it resets the modem and gets you a new IP address; all within 60 seconds. BOOM, you're back on Ticketmaster. Screw them!
Want more info? I got lots.
Where did you get this? I can't access ticketmaster anymore.
I'm not saying I agree with what Ticketmaster is doing, but the truth is this...as a company, Ticketmaster has the right to decide who they allow and prohibit to use their site. As does Amazon, eBay, StubHub, and virtually every website online. Now, the legality of such restrictions and allowances has, to the best of my knowledge, never been challenged in court, and maybe it's time? That being said, it's a slippery slope...if you challenge the legality of Ticketmaster in denying access to anyone they want, then the brokers out there who own their own websites could be challenged in their ability to control who accesses their site.
I think the common ground is for there to be clear definitions of what is considered a reason for denying or limiting access to a site. How does Ticketmaster determine if someone is 'over accessing' their site? It will be interesting to see that, in the wake of Azoff crying 'transparency! transparency!' for the ticket industry, if he will follow suit and disclose who is being limited and why. Also, not to really bash the messenger, but how many people are REALLY being blocked here? In one part of the article TicketNews says "dozens," in another they say "hundreds." If it's dozens, it could be isolated, if it's hundreds, then obviously not.
That being said, there ARE ways around this. I just recently switched to an ISP that easily allows me to change my IP address anytime I want. Do your homework, and you may be able to find one too.
What about their clients that they are selling tickets for? If you were a sports team or a venue, would you like the fact that people can not access the source to purchase tikcets? It sounds like a breach of contract to me. And I would assume that a lot of clients would be very angry to know that this is going on. Futhermore, what about the sports teams using TM? If I can't get on my account manager to print or forward tickets or list them on the ticketexchange when I need to, that is a major problem. Again, I'd assume that everybody from the Yankees to the Rays would be upset to see this going on.
One of these clients can and should file a lawsuit here.
I'm sure whoever has Ticketmaster sell their tickets for them signs a contract with TM that, among other things, says that TM is allowed to regulate who uses their site in effect that it would also regulate who can or cannot buy their tickets. If TM told their clients that they blocked a few dozen brokers from buying tickets off their site, do you think anyone is going to complain? The events/venues that need the revenue are likely not the ones that brokers want to buy anyway, and the ones brokers do want to buy likely don't care if they lose a few sales to brokers.
As for the account manager, I mentioned this below. I think the brokers' best bet is to talk to the teams who they have season tickets with, and who's account managers they cannot access. If the teams are having their future revenues jeopardized by TM's inability to service their clients, then they could complain to TM and have the block lifted. I think it would depend on the team...I wouldn't expect the Yankees to complain, but maybe a team like the Braves or Marlins (if anyone has tickets with them) might.
Finally, if you think suing TM directly is the answer, think again. TM is allowed to regulate who they allow and disallow to use their site. I have yet to see any cases where a major website had that part of their terms and conditions ruled illegal in court.
BTW...side note to my post above. I wonder how this will affect TicketExchange? When I was blocked a while back, I remember I also could not access my team account managers, TicketExchange, etc. If that is the case, I suggest all affected brokers get on the phone with their season ticket reps and complain (which you can do without revealing you're a broker). Surely, major league sports teams are not going to want to jeopardize their revenues by limiting service to their customers because of whatever nonsense Ticketmaster feels like pulling this week. Just a suggestion.
I wonder how many investors in Ticketmaster (TKTM) know about all the things this company is doing under the direction of its new CEO Irving Azoff.
There is no way that any person with very much money invested in this company can be pleased with the direction it has taken since they got rid of Sean Moriarty and put band manager Irving Azoff in control.
He is on the record saying that he thinks that a company that TKTM paid over $300 million dollars for should not be allowed to continue. (refer to his testimony to the US Senate where he said he thinks secondary markets should be illegal and that he would not have approved the purchase of Ticketsnow.) What? That is crazy. What kind of CEO says something like that?
TKTM paid more for Ticketsnow than the entire TKTM marketshare is now worth. That is how poorly Azoff has performed.
He merges with Live Nation, a company that has so much debt it will likely be bankrupt within 10 years. All stock investment organizations seem to agree that if that merger goes through it is bad for TKTM investors and good for LYV investors. Again, why would you do this merger?
Irving Azoff clearly is against brokers. He is old school. He liked the days when he managed bands and charged sky-high prices and had the whole industry to himself. Now days, artists have found a better way. They sell their tickets on the primary market, and if the tickets resale on the secondary that is even better, because they can reap the rewards more than once on one set of tickets. (For more on this, look at the deal Madonna signed with Stubhub.Or the deal that the MLB struck with Stubhub.)
Azoff preferred the days when customers bought tickets through ticketmaster and if they could not attend the show, they just had to lose the money. There was no option to cancel and no option to sell the tickets. With his "paperless tickets" tour with Miley Cyrus, he is attempting to bring back those days.
Think about it for just a second. They are asking consumers to purchase tickets for approximately $100 per ticket (so a family of 4 spends $400) 6 months before a concert takes place. If ANYTHING comes up where you can not attend that show, you lose. In this economy, who can afford that? And what should a consumer not be allowed to re-sell that which he or she owns, if he so pleases?
It is my belief that now is the time for Irving Azoff to resign as CEO of Ticketmaster. He is running this company into the ground. TKTM is a company that should have no problems making money. All they have to do is sell as many tickets as possible. That was and should be the goal of that company. (And when it was the goal, the company made money hand over fist.)
Non-transferable paperless tickets, blocking certain buyers from your website, and merging with a failing competitor is not good business.
Here stands one person that would love to see him replaced with a more friendly, pro-growth, pro-business CEO.
Good comment, and I agree with almost everything you said. A few things though...one, if the Live Nation merger doesn't go through, Azoff won't be around much longer. With the way TKTM is performing, he has basically hitched his wagon to the LN merger and if it doesn't go through, I doubt his Board of Directors will want to keep someone around who's record mainly consists of a failed merger, poor quarters, and devaluing a large asset like TicketsNow.
As for Live Nation, yes, they have a high amount of debt, but I can't see them being bankrupt in ten years. The majority of their debt was tied to breaking free of Ticketmaster, and aggressively signing exclusivity deals with artists and venues. Over the long haul, these investments will begin to pay themselves off. Ultimately I feel that, should the merger be rejected, Live Nation and Ticketmaster may have to go back to their previous arrangement where TKTM handles more of LN's ticketing, because LN's ticketing platform is incapable of efficiently handling high volume loads, and they do not have the money to retool it at this time.
This is a fantastic comment. It was well written, well thought out, and very clear. I pretty much agree 100% with everything you said. Ticketmaster experienced a bad quarter and they compound the situation by shutting out a large part of their audience. I do hope this article gets syndicated across other news networks.
This goes to show you what Corporate Giants can do. Imagine what will happen if the Live Nation Merger Takes Place. Good bye Secondary Ticket Market. What this demonstrates is that Ticket Master is ready, willing, and able to shut down the Secondary Market.
Imagine what all these Brokers had to do to merely Print their Ticket Inventory?
The Block was complete and disallowed even going to the Home Page.
Ticket Master is testing the waters for the Next Step. I feel it is very necessary to show them that they do not control the Ticket Industry.
Tickets Now is in a position to lose Millions. What happens to the Inventory when Brokers cannot even buy Tickets Any Longer?
Think about this.
I also definitely think that those in charge of the venues would be very unhappy if they knew that Ticketmaster was blocking their customers.
Ticketmaster’s strategy of discriminating against brokers doesn’t make too much sense to me. Blocking the primary market means lost sales for Ticketmaster in two major ways: (1) brokers sometimes overbuy tickets for an event, but the money is still pocketed by Ticketmaster in the end; (2) if a broker cannot access the primary market, there is no way to sell on the secondary market, such as Ticketmaster’s TicketsNow. If Ticketmaster wants to report an even more disastrous fiscal year, this would be one of the ways to do it.
If the blocks are part of Ticketmaster’s plot to become even more of a monopoly, there will be an inevitable uproar.
I wonder the legality of what they are doing also. I'm not sure who owns the ticket between the artist/promoter and venue, but Ticketmatser certainly doesn't. Ticketmaster is simply the selling agent for venues and artists and I wonder what the venues would think knowing that Ticketmater is blocking hundreds of potential customers.
I also don't understand their strategy concerning TicketsNow. They are blocking the supply side of their business. I wonder if the guys at the top know that brokers are being blocked.
Do you really think Ticketmaster would implement this strategy without the Venues & Artists being on board? And to address your 2nd comment, brokers who buy tickets from Ticketmaster do not resell them on TicketsNow. They sell them on their own for maximum profit.
There is no way Ticketmaster got the consent from every single venue, promoter, artist, and sports team to pull something like that. I wouldn't doubt none of them are even aware of what happened. Your second comment tells me that you have no idea how ticket brokering even works.
If you're asking me whether Ticketmaster would block brokers from their website without contacting the 3000 venues they deal with to get consent, then yes, I absolutely think they would.
Your comment about brokers not selling on TicketsNow is obviously not true.
Would this be something that is illegal or do the have the right to choose who they sell too. We are know that in the past Ticketmaster has blocked other people in different states or markets from being able to buy tickets in certian markets.
This goes to show you what Corporate Giants can do. Imagine what will happen if the Live Nation Merger Takes Place. Good bye Secondary Ticket Market. What this demonstrates is that Ticket Master is ready, willing, and able to shut down the Secondary Market.
Imagine what all these Brokers had to do to merely Print their Ticket Inventory?
The Block was complete and disallowed even going to the Home Page.
Ticket Master is testing the waters for the Next Step. I feel it is very necessary to show them that they do not control the Ticket Industry.
Tickets Now is in a position to lose Millions. What happens to the Inventory when Brokers cannot even buy Tickets Any Longer?
Think about this.
Am surprised that so many people are against what Ticketmaster is doing here to block the brokers.. Are you guys really saying that its a good thing that the brokers should be allowed to grab all possible inventory from the primary ticketing sites and then sell it in their backyard at more than 300% premium???
I think its a step in the right direction, and who better to take the step than the biggest in the industry.
Why do you need a secondary ticketing market? Why cannot the primary ticketing be the only ticketing platform for common people to buy tickets? Why should I pay a premium to watch a concert to a company that does no work in setting up the events, nor planning the event, nor planning the prices, and do none of the other groundwork, that makes the event possible, but rake up all the profits by just being able to buy those tickets in bulk and then sell them at a premium!
TicketMaster is looking to control the secondary market themselves. They want to block all brokers, so they can mark up the tickets on ticketsnow, they want to get all revenues for themselves and not share one dime.
They figure take a small loss now by blocking brokers to tighten up their grip later.
Ever notice how primo tickets that didn't sell on Ticketsnow somehow appear on TicketMaster right before the event? Hmmmm? Gee, wonder why?, Maybe because Ticketmaster the promoters/Band are holding the best tickets to sell on the secondary market? ohh no, the Big corporations would never do something like that? It's the evil brokers who run the secondary market, not the big corporations that set the industry standard.
Ever notice when you try to buy tickets form scalpers on the street even when the show is almost over that they wont' sell for less than full price? Could it be that they are working on a commission basis? Cause it makes sense if you spent your own money on the tickets to take a full loss by holding out even when the show is almost over! it must be the principal of getting the full price that matters instead of taking a loss out of your own wallet. Or is it that they only get paid a commission if they sell at a certain price?
People really need to stop buying the PR bull that these huge corporation spin. Brokers only get the left overs after everyone else has had their fill. That's the truth.
Why should we have Car Dealerships then? Or for that Matter, Grocery Stores, or even Health Care Providers.
Why not let One Company Sell all Cars. Or Maybe Stop and Shop control all Food. Or Maybe Blue Cross and Blue Shield control Health Care.
In case you have forgotten, this Country was founded on Capitalism.
This is what drives the Economy.
Monopolies. Like The Phone Company in the 80s (Remember that one?) are not good for our way of life.
Spreading the tickets around instead of having them controlled by ONE Agency is the only way to promote Fair Market Competition.
Small Minds do not see the Big Picture.
You guys are morons. You can't compare rapist, i mean brokers to car dealerships. There are hundreds of dealerships you can go to to look at the same damn car thousands of times and hopefully get a good price. brokers are taking advantage of the fact that a particular event won't be available a thousand times or more in the same venue night after night so they get to screw the customers because they know the tickets will be bought either way. speculation my a$$. you don't think a popular concert will be sold out whether or not the ticket is $60 or $300. the job of a broker isn't that damn hard and don't give me the boo hoo sob story of the risk they take. please they make enough money off one ticket so how much of a risk are they really taking? LOL
Listen guys, its one thing to hate the secondary market but its another thing to not provide an event feed to publish on other websites with a link to buy tickets. TM does not provide a feed for these sites. Example: Your website for a ciy has all the upcoming shows for the city. You hit TM, grab the show list, then save it off and refresh ever X minutes or days. TM is blocking these requests. All this does is lower the concert reach, lower # of ticket sales, and pushes everyone to the horrible site that is ticket master. If they would just provide a damn feed like Live Nation or other ticket venders, they wouldnt have this issue. I'm not a ticket reseller, I would just like to see what shows are going on without checking TM! Let the fans use the data and build something better, this will only help the live music scene.
If you think it's so easy and there is no risk why don't you try selling tickets for yourself. It's so easy right. Why not take 10,000.00 of your own money and back up your words. How the fact that the brokers don't determine the market but the demand does. How about the many times brokers sell tickets under the face value, sometimes for half the face value, sometimes much less than half. Are we rapists then. How many car dealer sell their cars for half of their costs? You don't see the value of competition or the value of a ticket holder being able to resell their tickets at any price more or less than what they paid should be a given right in a capitalistic economy then perhaps you should make sure you can't compete in whatever job or business it is that you are in. We chose tickets tell the car dealers they can't make a profit or they are rapists. Close the doors on all those dam jewelers and boat dealers as they all sell luxury items at a profit as well as every other business in America. By the way we pay taxes just like you, if you don't want to buy something in America you don't have to. Walk, or take public transportation don't drive, go without jewelery, and certainly you don't need to attend a concert these are all luxury things not essentials right? Grow up.
There's no damn risk when brokers buy up all the tickets to a popular show and customers have no other way of getting that particular ticket unless they go to the secondary market websites. go get a real job and stop taking advantage of people.
You should because that's how capitalism works. If you think anything you buy from someone isn't being sold for a profit you've got another thing coming. I can promise you the box of mac and cheese you pay 99 cents for at the grocery store was sold to the grocery store for 30 cents, as they are the secondary market for groceries. What do you think about that?
Brokers take risk and generate demand by purchasing seats and in fact contribute to events selling out during the initial offering. This has the added benefit for artists because this will often allow them to add additional shows and generate more income. Also, lots of tickets go unused because a broker speculated on them then ended up not being able to sell them at ANY price. In this case the artist/venue/Ticketmaster still receive income for a ticket that wouldn't have been sold in the first place.
Why shouldn't you buy a garment directly from the factory in China that made it with labor at 25 cents per hour? Why don't you buy your fruit directly from the grove? Why don't you a share of stock from a person wanting to sell it to you rather than paying a ctock broker a commission? Why, because in every industry there are middlemen who take advantage of contacts/information/arbitrage to make the product accessible to a certian segment of the population who are willing to pay extra to get what they want. That cashmere sweater you may see in Bloomingdales might cost you $1000, but only cost Bloomingdales $250. Do you question why you can't pay $250? Why should tickets be any different?
Look up "speculation" and you'll understand why.
This new attack is the beginning of the end of all brokers and Ticketmaster knows this. They dream of being the wholesaler/Distributor/Retailer all in one. If we stand down it will come sooner than you think. If we stand up together they will fall very fast.
This is much bigger than any post I have seen here. It is not just brokers it is many of the public that have nothing to do with tickets that are also being banned. Ex: Went to Starbucks yesterday, Banned from Ticketmaster, Spoke with a client of my company today, he can not access Ticketmaster through his home? My house is banned at this time and I go to Ticketmaster maybe 5 times a month for show info or maybe email a couple tickets. They are banning ranges not individual IPs this means if your IP is 58.134.152.1 and you are on the list to get banned they are taking down the entire 256 IP range meaning 58.134.152.1 through 58.134.152.256 are being blocked. This is affecting everyone not just brokers. This needs to be exposed and used to dismantle the attack aimed at us.
Here is the strategy for those who refuse to go down without a fight:
1. Get a DSL account as soon as possible, this will allow you to change IP addresses at your free will in about a minute or 2 (UNPLUG THE POWER CORD TO THE MODEM - GIVE IT A MINUTE OR TWO - REPLUG THE POWER CORD) before you do this go to www.whatsmyip.org write down the IP number and after you have done the power plug thing go back to this site to verify the new IP. If it doesn't work the first time do it again and wait like 5 minutes it will work and you will have access. If they ban you later do it again. You just won that small battle because chances are they just dismantled 256 public IP addresses that will not have access to Ticketmaster. THAT SHOULD HELP THE NEXT QUARTER SALES REPORT!!!
2. Send your complaints to Ticketmaster. Let them know you just signed up for a fan club that cost $ and now when the tickets go onsale you are not authorized to view their site. Ask them for reimbursement for the fan club fees and or tickets. This is a fundamental requirement to have access after you have paid a fee for access to allocated tickets but then you are denied. Mention legal action if they can not resolve this directly.
3. Post as many posts as you can on financial blogs, forums, chat sites explaining how Ticketmaster is banning good customers when the 2nd quarter sales are down 70%? Investors want results in the form of profits. There is currently no publicly traded company that is attempting to block their customers from purchasing their products. Eventually the press will pick up on this and it will go haywire with the CEOS trying to explain their method. They will loose good investors once this gets out.
4. If you are a real abuser and do have a software program that has heavy traffic on their site and they can prove this you have no case. Terms and conditions that you agree to every time you attempt to buy tickets does warrant denial to their servers. How ever if you have no software, do not abuse their site in the form of 1000 searches per day or more for tickets then they have no case. Stand up to them and do not back down. Let them know they are in violation of the Sherman act of 1890 GOOGLE THIS ACT AND READ UP ON IT YOU WILL BE AMAZED HOW TICKETMASTER IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THIS ACT. The part of the act that pertains is the part that says it is unlawful to be a sole provider of goods within a 70 mile radius and deny sales to anyone wishing to purchase these goods. In other words if it is 70 miles or more to the venue and Ticketmaster is the only provider at face price out side of the 70 miles they have to provide access for you to purchase rather they like you or not. Ironically it was setup in 1890 because a grain provider who wanted to squash all the small farms in the area refused to sell the small farms grain so he could dominate the market and buy up all the small farms for nothing when they were hopeless. SOUND FAMILIAR?
What Ticketmaster is doing today is un-American, Illegal to some extent, un-capitalistic and unrealistic. For those of you that are the consumers and think we brokers are bad and need to be squashed. Mark my words we are the only thing holding them back from a full monopoly at this time. If a full monopoly were to ever happen they will scrap every dollar for every ticket in every town like you have not ever seen. Think about it this way imagine if Exxon-Mobile forcefully bought or stold every oil field, every oil platform on every coast. Then did the same with the refineries and then the gas stations. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD BE PAYING FOR GAS??? WAKE UP PEOPLE IT IS TIME TO STAND UP - ALL OF US!!!
Important to note your first suggestion does NOT work with all ISP's. Your second is utterly useless, however, because if Ticketmaster cared about the ability of brokers to access their site, then they wouldn't have blocked them, would they? Also, threatening legal action is also useless...until there is a legal precedent that says otherwise, websites are perfectly within their rights to block any users as they see fit.
^^^ Obvious broker. lol
F
^^^Obviously you're and ass :)
Huh? Proper English please. Oh wait, youre a broker, probably didn't graduate high school.
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Don't buy tickets from anyone. Don't go to the show. This strategy has worked quite well for me over the years.