A court hearing slated for Oct. 1 in Los Angeles involving Ticketmaster and RMG Technologies is shaping up to potentially have far-reaching ramifications on the ticketing industry.
The primary ticketing giant is suing RMG and others over software RMG has developed that utilizes “bots” to find and purchase large blocks of tickets from Ticketmaster’s websites. The others being sued are ticket brokers that have allegedly used the applications, and Ticketmaster is seeking an end to the use of such types of software programs.
Over the past few years, Ticketmaster has watched as StubHub! and countless secondary ticket brokers have chipped away at its event ticketing empire, in what has become one of the fastest growing segments in the entertainment industry.
In addition, with parents of “Hannah Montana” fans up in arms over ticket prices on the open market, the timing of Monday’s hearing in district court in Los Angeles could not be more pertinent.
To hear critics of brokers, ticketers using such back-door technology are part of why tickets for hot events often become scarce quickly, but what that view point does not take into account is the inherent risk involved in such a speculative enterprise.
testimony in the RMG case by at least one broker, who allegedly settled with Ticketmaster, described in detail how the bots worked, allowing him to buy 24,000 tickets from Ticketmaster in about two years, according to published reports. RMG software allegedly allowed brokers to make hundreds of thousands of ticket requests and purchases on Ticketmaster websites.
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StubHub! Rules!
Stub Hub is just as bad. Just look at MLB supporting it to get a cut on the back end of ticket sales. MLB sells the tickets to Stub Hub then gets another 10% of the jacked up price.
so are other ticket brokers and the tools they use
It’s ashame that an originally priced ticket of $30-$100 is so insanely jacked up out of greed. Think of all of the children who will miss out on the Hannah Montana concert because the parents can’t afford $500 for ticket(s). StubHub and Ticketsnow are a prime example of this greed and I hope that someday the largest lawsuit falls upon you and you lose your entire fortune. You are very sickening people; I’m surprised you can sleep at night. Just remember Karma is a *****!
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Still nobody here comments about ticketmasters monopoly and gouging?
Charging a fee of sometimes 20% of the ticket price?
I totally think that Ticketmaster has something to do with this! My daughter is a member of the Miley Cyrus Fan Club and I couldn’t even get pre-sale tickets, which as a member I should have been able to!!! Not fair!
Stubhub charges a hefty markup on all tickets which are already marked up! I think they charge 15% to the seller and to the buyer!! What’s up whith that? I buy from http://www.stubdepot.com which has the lowest prices of any online ticketing website. They have NO hidden fees or service charges! NICE!!
Ticketmaster has a total monoploly on ticket sales. When tickets go on sale for just about anything, where do you go to buy them? Ticketmaster of course! I’m sure they have cut side deals with brokers to give them a one minute head start for a piece of their profits. It is mathematically impossible to sell out an 18000 seat arena in 60 seconds. Think about it. the only way it can be done is if someone else has bought or reserved a pile of tickets BEFORE they went on sale to the public. Who is the only one that has access and can allow this to happen? Ticketmaster and the brokers. Very simple logic.
Not that I’m a huge fan of ticketmaster fees, however your comment makes me laugh because the story is about bots (software) allowing the brokers to do this..
I can understand the frustration of people who want to go to a show, but couldn’t get tickets from Ticketmaster because it sold out.
Now you have to go to a “greedy broker” to buy. Do you not understand supply and demand? Only so many tickets are available. If brokers didn’t exist you very likely wouldn’t even have a shot at going to Hannah Montana at all.
So you have 40,000 people trying to purchase 2-4 tickets each from a supply of 20,000 tickets. Guess what…. only 5000-10,000 people are getting inside. Get it?
Lucky for you, brokers buy up tickets and now you can go if you have the money and willingness to pay MARKET prices. If you don’t, then tough luck. Do you also ***** and moan that it’s unfair that some people get to drive a Lexus or live in a bigger house?
What is completely misunderstood in this equation is that ticket brokers are taking on all the risk by buying up tickets with no guarantee of profit. Ticketmaster still gets their fees and the artists get their cut from brokers buying up tickets that they may end up taking a loss on.
Brokers don’t SET the price out of greed. The price gets set by YOU the consumer. If enough people are willing to pay $100, $200, $1000/ ticket then that is what the price will be.
Same thing happens in real estate, gasoline, coffee and for every other product ever sold in this world.
You don’t get pissed off because some scumbag investor buys up properties in your neighborhood and then “GOD PLEASE STRIKE HIM DOWN” sells for a profit…. or a loss depending on the demand of the market. Hell no… you look up to him. Brave entrepreneur…smart businessman.
And I’m sure you don’t complain and demand to pay face value on a ticket that you can buy for half price from some devil in disguise broker that took the RISK of INVESTING in a product (tickets) that turns out to be a dud… now do you miss moral high ground.
Pull you head out…. the whole world runs on a free market and you don’t have a RIGHT to buy something just because you want it or you stood in line. After all, it’s just entertainment. A free market may not be fair to a lot of people, but it’s the way it works. So stop your pathetic whining and do a little homework on BASIC economics. You’ve got to pay to play.
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I can understand the frustration of people who want to go to a show, but couldn’t get tickets from Ticketmaster because it sold out.
Now you have to go to a “greedy broker” to buy. Do you not understand supply and demand? Only so many tickets are available. If brokers didn’t exist you very likely wouldn’t even have a shot at going to Hannah Montana at all.
So you have 40,000 people trying to purchase 2-4 tickets each from a supply of 20,000 tickets. Guess what…. only 5000-10,000 people are getting inside. Get it?
Lucky for you, brokers buy up tickets and now you can go if you have the money and willingness to pay MARKET prices. If you don’t, then tough luck. Do you also ***** and moan that it’s unfair that some people get to drive a Lexus or live in a bigger house?
What is completely misunderstood in this equation is that ticket brokers are taking on all the risk by buying up tickets with no guarantee of profit. Ticketmaster still gets their fees and the artists get their cut from brokers buying up tickets that they may end up taking a loss on.
Brokers don’t SET the price out of greed. The price gets set by YOU the consumer. If enough people are willing to pay $100, $200, $1000/ ticket then that is what the price will be.
Same thing happens in real estate, gasoline, coffee and for every other product ever sold in this world.
You don’t get pissed off because some scumbag investor buys up properties in your neighborhood and then “GOD PLEASE STRIKE HIM DOWN” sells for a profit…. or a loss depending on the demand of the market. Hell no… you look up to him. Brave entrepreneur…smart businessman.
And I’m sure you don’t complain and demand to pay face value on a ticket that you can buy for half price from some devil in disguise broker that took the RISK of INVESTING in a product (tickets) that turns out to be a dud… now do you miss moral high ground.
Pull you head out…. the whole world runs on a free market and you don’t have a RIGHT to buy something just because you want it or you stood in line. After all, it’s just entertainment. A free market may not be fair to a lot of people, but it’s the way it works. So stop your pathetic whining and do a little homework on BASIC economics. You’ve got to pay to play.
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If you don’t use them then they will cease to exist. I know, wishful thinking!
We’re not talking about supply and demand here. We are talking about taking advantage of people. While I am not a big fan of the fact that Ticketmaster has practically a monopoly on concert tickets, I am even less a fan of ticket brokers. I have been to several concerts that were “SOLD OUT” only to find that a large portion of seats in the house were empty. And I am not talking about a seat here or there, I am talking about entire sections. As a performer I find this very disappointing. So Ticketmaster gets their money, the brokers get their money and THE FANS GET SCREWED. I have a real problem with this. In the end, I don’t think that some jenky software is the problem. The problem is that ticket brokers are allowed to exist at all.
As a fan, it makes it really hard for me to see my favorite bands and musicals. As a perfomer, I don’t really think anyone should be making money off of me without my consent.
The ticket brokering industry is like the new mafia except instead of paying them for protection you are paying them to guarantee you tickets.
First of all the brokers acquire the ticket in illegal ways with bots and DO NOT stick to published ticket limits.
Also brokers sell tickets for way higher than the legal resell value for tickets and often acquire these tickets before the onsale even happens.
The ticket situation does not follow a free market system is the brokers acquire all the allotment of tickets and then sell at “market value.” That would be the same as if I owned all of the world’s gas and sold for whatever value you where willing to pay, but the problem is that you are forced to buy it from me… that is not a free market.
“Do you also ***** and moan that it’s unfair that some people get to drive a Lexus or live in a bigger house?” this has NOTHGING to do with this conversation of ticket brokers, how about you get your head out and take a step back and actually see what is going on, and for a second do not think of your own pockets.
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Every person who has ever complained about a ticket broker or ticket brokering services should read what you have written it sums it up perfectly. The bottom line is “Supply and Demand”.
I use TicketMenu.com for all my concert and sporting tickets. They are honest and well priced!!!!
It has nothing to do with supply and demand….It has to do with greed and more greed! The only people driving up the prices are the parent’s of spoiled brats who think it’s nothing to pay over $500 a ticket for a show. While my daughter deperately wanted to see Hannah Montana, she understands that it’s not worth paying that much….Maybe some of the parents out there should take a lesson from her, lol. If people would stop purchasing tickets from these people, they would be forced to go out of business. I know it would be a hard thing to do, but it’s the only way. As for you Mr. Supply and Demand…Hopefully you will be the first ticket broker to go out of business! Only someone involved in the business would actually defend it. It is a scam a total BS rip off game and I for one hope it comes to an end soon!
You can bet a million dollars the guy who posted the comment about supply and demand is a ticket broker himself.
I love how he says people dont get tickets because theres not enough to go around. Sure thats true to a point, but if all the ticket brokers werent buying up all the tickets, then alot more people would be able to get tickets.
On top of that the brokers are using illegal software and buying more tickets then what is allowed for anybody else.
These brokers should have to pay huge fines for doing this, then maybe they might stop being scumbags.
Buying tickets for 30 bucks and selling them for a thousand, what could be more greedy then that? Yes all the spoiled rich kids whose parnets make mega bucks can buy those tickets, but what about all the regular 9-5 workers who are trying to give their kids something? They cant because of the greed of the ticketbrokers.
Buying concerts tickets is one thing the internet has ruined.
Maybe we need to go back to the old days of buying tickets, where you had to line up outside to get tickets.
Also the artists themselves can help get rid of the ticketbrokers by having any person who buys a ticket thru the fanclub sites, have to actually pick up their tickets in person at the box office, that would sure put the brokers from being able to buy tickets all over the country.
people would have to show ids and they would have to match who bought the tickets.
SO WE MAKE MONEY!!!! BIG DEAL….. WE SUPPLY THE PUPLIC DEMANDS… YOU THINK WE WERE SELLING METH???? AT THE LOCAL SCHOOL YARD. I GUESS YOU MR AND MRS FAN AS THE PUPLIC ….WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING….. I DEAL WITH CHEAP SKATES AND GRINDERS EVERYDAY IF YOU WANT TO GO TO AN EVENT, PAY THE PRICE ….. DO YOU COMPLAIN WHEN YOUR PLUMBER FIXES YOUR PIPES AT 3.00 AM . ????? TO BE HONEST ALOT OF WOULD BE BUYERS ARE DOWNRIGHT ANNOYING!!!! GIVE THE BROKERS A BREAK, ITS JUST ANOTHER INDUSTRY……
YOU ARE SO RIGHT
Really, do you really know what your talking about????
The public doesn’t see what ticketmaster is yet…but they will…they are an official broker. They are selling tickets at a much higher price then the face value themselves.
Take a good look at all the Celine Dion shows across North America. Go to the ticket exchange and judge for yourself.
The brokers have taught ticketmaster too much, they have taught the greedy promoters too much as well.
However ticketmaster keeps the public blind the whole time, because the public does not realise that ticketmaster is actually a broker as well.
The only difference between ticketmaster and any broker, is ticketmaster has the original rights to the event tickets…
The brokers need to cut ticketmaster out and go directly to the greedy promoters.
RMG simply provided a way for the brokers to compete with ticketmaster and actually offer the public seats at potentially cheaper rates then ticketmaster.
Anyone that has problems with brokers who provide a service and well at that, needs to take a much much much deeper look into ticketmaster.
Ticketmaster will get thiers….100%
The public doesn’t see what ticketmaster is yet…but they will…they are an official broker. They are selling tickets at a much higher price then the face value themselves.
Take a good look at all the Celine Dion shows across North America. Go to the ticket exchange and judge for yourself.
The brokers have taught ticketmaster too much, they have taught the greedy promoters too much as well.
However ticketmaster keeps the public blind the whole time, because the public does not realise that ticketmaster is actually a broker as well.
The only difference between ticketmaster and any broker, is ticketmaster has the original rights to the event tickets…
The brokers need to cut ticketmaster out and go directly to the greedy promoters.
RMG simply provided a way for the brokers to compete with ticketmaster and actually offer the public seats at potentially cheaper rates then ticketmaster.
Anyone that has problems with brokers who provide a service and well at that, needs to take a much much much deeper look into ticketmaster.
Ticketmaster will get thiers….100%
You probaly make your living off of selling tickets for a hefty price, but there are laws against price gouging and when a company like ticketmaster has a total MONOPOLY over the sales of tickets THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND CAN NOT BE FIGUERED IN TO THE EQUATION, IT’S CALLED BUSINESS 101.
I so tired of ticket brokers getting a bad rap. Tickets are a commodity just like oil and is traded just the same!! Sometimes we make money on tickets and sometimes we lose money on tickets its just knowing what to buy, when and how much. The ONLY reason we get such a bad rap is its the only business that prints the “original value” on the face of the product ???? Does a new car have the original value on it??? Do you think a car dealership marks up the price of that car???? HELL YEAH and they make tons of money. ohh yeah they give you the dealers invoice and you think your getting that car at 1000$ over invoice.. hahahah Yeah right. …. Does starbucks write “it cost us 5 cents to make this cup of coffee on the side of its coffee cups?? NO…because you wouldnt buy it…or if you did you would return it and say you want your money back!! boooo hooo…. its called business. Ticketmaster needs to take off the original value on the face of its tickets, period!!! The value of a ticket is what a person wants to pay for it..!!
Haha, that’s one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever heard. Firstly, a lot of things to print the (recommended) !retail! value. E.g. books. More then that, you’ve missed the point. Ticketmaster is the retail agent. The other ‘brokers’ are just unnecessary leeches. The analogy you’re describing is like if I go to Starbucks, but all their coffee is sold out because some scum-bag has bought all the Coffee and is selling it at 10x the price. This doesn’t actually work with coffee because it’s not in limited supply, but it is the same concept.
BTW and yes Starbucks does actually publish the price of their coffee. They don’t keep it a secret in case some scumbag wants to resell their coffee at a higher price.
YOU WHO IS VERY UNHAPPY THAT YOUR DAUGHTER CAN’T ATTEND A HANNAH MONTANA CONCERT…WELL WHOSE FAULT IS THAT??? EVIDENTLY YOURS…WHY? BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT CAN’T AFFORD THE TICKETS….WHY? WELL YOU HAVE A 9 TO 5 JOB….WHY? YOU CHOSE TO HAVE A 9 TO 5 JOB. WE HAVE CHOICES…YOUR CHOICE WAS NOT TO BE RICH. YOU COULD HAVE GOTTEN A GOOD EDUCATION AND COULD HAVE BEEN A DOCTOR, LAWYER, OR EVEN OPEN UP YOUR OWN BUSINESS! THERE IS ALOT OF OPPORTUNITYS TO GET AN EDUCATION….YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR THEM THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FALL ON YOUR LAP JUST BECAUSE IT’S YOUR!!! THAT’S WHATS WRONG WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT MAKES WRONG CHOICES AND THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE. EDUCATE YOURSELF, GET A REAL JOB AND MAYBE YOUR GRANDCHILDREN CAN ATTEND HANNAH MONTANA’S CHILDREN’S CONCERTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I use http:/www.ticketdugout.com
If you were that great of a performer, you wouldn’t worry about ticket broker prices.
You suck and so does stub hub..tickets that initially cost 50.00 now cost $336.00-$4,000 because of blood sucking pieces of crap like Stub Hub
Its people like you that ruin america for everyone else. The brokers are making more than the actual performers of these events… Thats a Damn discrace and so are ****ing idiots like you!
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Get a real job scumbag. Your not provided a service that makes life any easier. Your sitting at home naked in front of 6 computers rapidly clicked to exploit the people with real jobs.
I dislike ticketmaster as much as the next guy, but I am fine with them getting their piece of the pie because they are the ones actually doing the work, NOT the brokers. How much that work is worth is debatable, but one thing is for shure: All the brokers do is hike up prices. So you brokers out there do not try to feed us your bull$hit rhetoric about “providing a service.” Supply and demand? Are you kidding? You guys are ILLEGALLY creating the demand by choking off the supply. You only believe it is OK because you are making money. You’d also make money selling drugs to kids. Doesn’t mean it is morally right.
Oh thank you Mr. Ticket Broker Man! It is a free market, and if you have something you can resell it at whatever price you want. The problem I and many others have is brokers ILLEGALLY snatching up all the available tickets. That is all. So I don’t think you brokers quite get it. No, we are not ignorant, and yes, you are greedy and breaking the law.
I am sure this commentary is pretty much dead but I wanted to add one comment. To the person who said they were a performer. To be honest some of these bands are lucky that people do buy groups of their tickets. Do you think some smaller bands like Paramore, The Hives, Tegan and Sara, Boys Like Girls, etc would be selling out venues all across the country on their own. Not likely. When people buy up these tickets these bands are getting sold out shows which means more money in their pockets. Do you want to sell 800 tickets in a 2000 person venue or 2000 tickets? You get more money at the door and you are complaining about that. I DONT AGREE WITH THE BOT PROGRAMS AT ALL LET ME MAKE THAT CLEAR!! But if I log onto ticketmaster on a Saturday morning and am one of the lucky people to get tickets why cant I sell a couple extra ones to pay for my own tickets. What alot of people dont realize and it will change after the whole Hannah debacle. Ticketmaster, the venues and the promoters hold thousands of tickets for a show. So when you think a show sells out in 2 minutes at the Garden there are still thousands of tickets on hold. Brokers are the small fish in this sea. I love how everyone complains about the brokers but you are telling me that Susie Q soccer mom in Missouri didnt sell her extra Hannah tickets for thousands of dollars on ebay. Come on you cant be that gullible
I love this post. “Mr. and Mrs. Fan…Want something for nothing” And you want our money for what service? Oh, wait, NOTHING! You are a bottom feeder, nothing more. Trust me, the public would go on just fine without you. Your “service” is VERY expendable.