New York Sen. Charles Schumer, a vocal opponent to the proposed merger of Ticketmaster and Live Nation, said he is planning to introduce a bill this week that would prohibit all sales of tickets on the secondary market until two days after the tickets initially went on sale to the public.
Schumer’s proposal is said to be a reaction against the way Ticketmaster Entertainment, and its ticket resale subsidiary TicketsNow, handled the sale of Bruce Springsteen tickets, a situation that led to Ticketmaster to settle a complaint about it with New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram. Ticketmaster did not admit any wrongdoing, but acknowledged that there were problems with fans who went to the Ticketmaster Web site seeking tickets only to end up on the TicketsNow site where tickets are resold for more money.
“It’s simply unfair that you either need to be a computer hacker or made of money to go see Bruce Springsteen or U2 or the Mets or the Yankees,” Schumer said during a press conference Sunday, April 5.
But what the proposal does, in essence, is go after ticket brokers, who Schumer believes buy blocks of tickets before consumers can supposedly purchase them. Supposedly, brokers would not be allowed to purchase tickets until two days after they went on sale, but how that would be monitored was not yet explained. However, his proposal would require brokers to register nationally with the Federal Trade Commission to help eliminate fraud.
In addition, the proposal would effectively shut down the speculative sale of tickets, because prelisting tickets for sale would be illegal, a move which Arkansas recently adopted. When he made the announcement, Schumer did not mention anything about the issue of tickets being withheld by artists, promoters and others, which can severely limit the number of tickets initially available for any given show or sporting event.
In a statement to Reuters, Ticketmaster Entertainment CEO Irving Azoff, who has criticized the secondary market in recent weeks, said he supported Schumer’s plan. Schumer reportedly ran the proposal by Ticketmaster before making the announcement.
“Ticketmaster recognizes that the ticket resale industry needs far-reaching changes to better protect consumers and ensure fair access to tickets,” Azoff said. Both Azoff and former Ticketmaster head Sean Moriarty have admitted in the past that artists and their representatives often resell their own tickets for a premium before those tickets were ever made available to the public.
In fact, Ticketmaster is taking the unprecedented step of releasing broker information as part of its ongoing dealings with several investigations into its relationship with the secondary market in the U.S. and Canada.
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If the NATB had any credibility, they would have bounced TicketsNow as a member months ago.
Digital delivery is not the future of the ticket market. Ask the Cleveland Cavaliers, who’s “Flash Seats” initiative has failed to catch on elsewhere in the pro sports market. I agree for concert tickets more constraints may be put in place, but at what point does it become too prohibitive? For instance, I’m not going to buy concert tickets as a gift for someone if I have to be there to go with them into the show.
Secondly, like it or not, the secondary market is a multi-billion dollar market with some major players, including the eBay consortium. It is not in the government’s interest, particularly in the midst of a massive recession, to in effect eliminate what has been estimated at a $ 30 billion a year industry.
Research? Give me a break. Try selling that crock in a press statement or in sales material. Regardless of what technology or tactics you use, the end goal of ALL BROKERS is precisely the same…get only the best tickets available. Period. And I can say that because I’m a broker!! It’s not like we’re conducting in-depth customer surveys or focus groups. We’re not standing behind a 2-way mirror, watching a team of monkeys try to log-on to ticketing sites.
Research…….nice one, Chuckles.
If you’ve worked in a box office, you’d know that if Ticketmaster was manipulating inventory, it would show up in your audit reports. And you’d bust them, and we’d hear about it.
Fact is, if anything’s getting put on hold, it’s happening at the hands of a box office manager or promoter. It’s their inventory, not Ticketmaster’s.
Hard to believe Schumer sits on 4 high profile senate committees and if he can’t figure out the economics of this simple industry how can he on larger issues. His legislation ensures higher prices across the board for consumers and will help pave the path where TM participates financially in the transfer of tickets from one party to another.
Is this is the consolation that grants TM/LV to merge.. Boy Azoff must be doing everything to control himself..
Is Schumer that stupid or is he being hustled…
You think he’s a nice guy and works for his constituents but his ignorance at the hearing and his legislation appears to make him look like a pangering bully.
Just like any other profession, brokers are mostly hard working honest people. As a matter of fact, brokers are folks who honor their handshake and stand by their word. I have worked in many other industries and I found secondary ticketing professionals to be more honorable than most. Unfortunately the industry is completely misunderstood and the media loves to perpetuate the misconception.
Let’s stop unjustly vilifying brokers. They get a bad rap because they are the easiest target in the value chain of ticketing. Notice I said VALUE CHAIN. That’s because the public demand for broker’s services clearly shows value.
To the consumers who bought tickets from brokers last year with estimated revenue over 3 billion, and the Artists, Promoters, and Ticketing Agents who sold the brokers the 2.8 billion worth of tickets, the ticket broker is an integral player in this equation with tremendous value.
In answer to your question; Yes – you, or anyone else, has the exact same chance of pulling a quality seat for any given show, as I do. Even without a computer or whatever other technology you were referring to. I know this, because a significant percentage of my tickets are purchased on the telephone – using Ticketmaster’s toll free number – the same exact number that is available to anyone.
The “secret” is rather simple; You are looking for seats to a specific show – a specific artist at a specific place. I, on the other hand, am looking for seats to any show that I have determined might be profitable. This of course requires research, expertise – and a willingness to place my capitol at risk – which is what I am being compensated for.
This is such a simple equation that I am amazed at how often it is overlooked. Most people cannot, or choose not, to make the effort to attempt to buy tickets when they go on sale. Just as most people cannot, or choose not, to own a cow – they would rather pay a premium and buy milk at the store – the only real difference is that the cows do not print a “face value” on the milk. Otherwise, it is exactly the same – I’d rather pay someone than own a cow – it’s not that I couldn’t keep one and milk it myself – I’m just too damned lazy to learn how, much less actually do it.
You could have learned nearly everything I know about pulling tickets in the time it took you to write your response – it is available – for free – all over the Internet – my web site included.
The vast majority ( and we’re talking 99.99 % ) of brokers do not use “bots” or hundreds of employees. There has only been ONE – Yes, just one – recorded attempt to prosecute or curtail the use of bots in obtaining tickets.
That company was forced to turn over a list of all of it’s clients – all 68 of them. And we aren’t even talking about automated software – we are talking about software that allowed near seamless communication with individuals that were pulling tickets just like everyone else.
I love when supposedly “knowledgeable” people comment on topics which they clearly have no knowledge of.
Thanks for stopping by – I’m guessing the Honorable Mr. Schumer’s shoes are ready to be polished again – better move along now…
Obviously, the Honorable Mr Schumer’s comments show a near complete ignorance of the industry. It’s odd that this all started ( the latest round anyway ) with TM and it’s links to TicketsNow, yet – somehow, the problem is all secondary brokers.
We are an easy target – trust me, if they thought they could regulate Gator/Stub, they would, but they understand that they have the resources to fight. We, on the other hand, are disorganized throat cutting SOBs ( You know that’s true – just look @ undercutting on the market ) and they count on the fact that we cannot organize anything close to a real defense.
The only thing we have close to an organized front is the NATB – what a joke – after Azoff burned the secondary market, they didn’t have the guts to even suggest to their member brokers that it might be a good thing to boycott TicketsNow.
What is even more odd is that anyone – and I mean anyone, is still listing tickets on TicketsNow. I’ve pulled all of my inventory from their site, and encourage everyone else to do so. Azoff has turned on brokers – I say we turn on his company – let TicketsNow’s sales diminish to the point where he’ll have to beg Stub or Gator to buy it.
“””It’s simply unfair that you either need to be a computer hacker or made of money to go see Bruce Springsteen or U2 or the Mets or the Yankees,”””
What a clown – what we do is available to anyone who cares to research how to do it. It’s all over the web, – for free – my site included, and doesn’t involve “hacking” by anyone’s definition.
Say no to TicketsNow people.. It’s the one voice you have.. Just say Tickets NAH !!
I do not work for a big broker or use any bot technology but you are one of many people who do not really understand what happens. Your quote was as follow, “you were to compete against your contemporaries for 4 great seats to Jonas Bros., how would you fare? ” The majority of people would fare just the same. Reason being is that the great seats you speak of are being held back by ticketmaster, the artists, the promoters or already sold. When you go to purchase tickets these days anything remotely close to the stage is not available the actual day of the onsale. The “best” seats in the house are never even offered to the general public anymore. Everything else close to the stage is sold in radio/promoter presales, VIP clubs or through fan clubs. Then there are the tickets that the bands or venues sell themselves on the secondary market, ticketings biggest secret. Check out the ticketexchange for any Madison Square Garden show. You will see alot of the best seats in the house for sale on there. And finally alot of tickets are held until weeks or days before the event on the artists or promoters behalf. THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM EXISTS!! After an investigation into the Hannah Montana ticketing outrage you probably missed the article about the Kansas show. The venue was a 32000 person arena but only 12000 tickets were acutally sold the day it went on sale. Where did the rest of the tickets go?? If the public was more aware of what else is going on behind the scenes they would not be so quick to jump on the secondary market. And I am not saying that everything is fine and dandy on the ticket broker side but I dont think it is as much as Ticketmaster and everyone else makes it seem
I’m sorry to hear about your family’s hardship, and genuinely hope and pray you guys find solid footing again. At the end of the day, the health and happiness of one’s family is all that matters…everything else pales in comparison.
Hey AR,
How about we say no to the outrageous asking price on your home. Tickets should not be considered the “Sacred Cow” when we in this society believe that we should get what the market will bear on other goods and products. How is it that tickets are treated like a religious article. Really…. Homes have been overpriced for years, by the Greedy homeowner. Shouldn’t you be bad mouthing them too. What about oil companies that gouge you and I on our gasoline. Frankly those guys are scammers too, but that’s ok, you would rather pick on the broker/scalper, as you do not have your facts correct. What they are the easier target for you to single out. Why don’t you call out the artist that feels you should pay more… You just listen too closely to the lies that Irving Azoff will spout off just to save his old wrinkly rich ass!!! He would throw his own mother under the bus if he could. If you read Sean Moriarity’s recent article here, you will learn, yes, learn that Ticketmaster did in fact place seats directly onto ticketsnow and their ticketexchange, therefore bypassing the fans a chance at face value, but you can have these “special seats” for an inflated price that is even higher than what brokers are asking. Fact is the Artist, promoters, venue and ticketmaster get a percentage on tickets sold. While the broker may hold some blame, they do not hold all of the blame as ticketmaster and old fart Irving have been manipulating you for longer than you realize. You get the dunce cap today, no stars for you.
Azoff never admitted any such thing. He said not all of the seats are made available to the general onsale because of venues, artists, etc. holding back.
Artist, box office and promoter holds are just that – ARTIST, BOX OFFICE and PROMOTER holds. TM provides the system, the clients control the seats. TM doesn’t decide which tickets are sold and doesn’t decide the price any more than E-Bay decides how much you should sell your hand crafted doileys for or what shape they should be.
The extent to which brokers play the victim is remarkable to me. The bottom line is this: you guys are simultaneously the best friends of teams (and some venues), and yet the absolute enemies of the vast majority of concert goers. There’s no shocker in that statement. You (collectively) log on the moment tickets go on-sale, and via either tons of workers, or fairly advanced technology (bots), you lock a tremendous chunk of tickets, and prevent the concert goers from accessing that inventory. From that point forward, the only chance the fan has of purchasing a good seat is to do so via the secondary market; typically for a hugely inflated price.
I’m a tremendous fan of capitalism, and I support any individual’s right to own and operate a legal and ethically sound business. But to (a) perpetually act as the innocent victim; and (b) claim that efforts such as what’s being proposed by Schumer are counter to capitalism is blatantly disingenuous.
If I’m wrong, then truthfully answer this: on a given high-demand on-sale, does the standard concert goer stand a realistic chance of securing good seats? Or better yet, if someone suddenly removed your bots technology/hundreds of employees from the equation, and you were to compete against your contemporaries for 4 great seats to Jonas Bros., how would you fare?
A wise man once said “acceptance of reality is the first crucial step of reaching a speedy resolution to any conflict”. Perhaps brokers ought to begin accepting the reality of the hardships they impose on moms, dads, and rabid 14-year old Taylor Swift fans, and abandon their relentless cries of “woe is me”.
Give me a break – even Azoff admitted that they do – where exactly do you think those extra seats that they agreed to release for the Bruce NJ show came from?
Whether you call them Artist holds or Promoter holds, TM is contractualy involved with them – and of the eight or so shows that I have attended using promoter’s tickets, I have NEVER been more than 20 feet from the stage.
How about just say no to ticket brokers? I’m all for capitalism and I don’t think you guys should have a touch of regulations on you (other than preventing fraud), but you’re still assh*les. What *good* for society would ya say you do there, Trent?
1) “But what the proposal does, in essence, is go after ticket brokers, who Schumer believes buy blocks of tickets before consumers can supposedly purchase them. Supposedly, brokers would not be allowed to purchase tickets until two days after they went on sale, but how that would be monitored was not yet explained. However, his proposal would require brokers to register nationally with the Federal Trade Commission to help eliminate fraud.”
Idiot doesn’t even know what the problem is. The problem is TM holding back thousands of tickets.
2) “When he made the announcement, Schumer did not mention anything about the issue of tickets being withheld by artists, promoters and others, which can severely limit the number of tickets initially available for any given show or sporting event.”
This is the MAIN problem in addition to Ticketmaster holding back thousands.
Somehow brokers always get the blame.
I’m really tired of lawmakers coming up with laws to solve a problem when they’re clueless to what the problem is in the first place.
How about just say no to ticket brokers? I’m all for capitalism and I don’t think you guys should have a touch of regulations on you (other than preventing fraud), but you’re still assh*les. What *good* for society would ya say you do there, Trent?
Ticketmaster holds NO tickets back, what?? You just even admitted yourself that tickets are held back. They might be held back at the discretion of the promoters, artist or venue, but ticketmaster is the outlet from which the tickets are being sold. Therefore Ticketmaster is holding tickets back! And please dont give me the holds are never the best seats in the house. I have been to numerous shows in the last year where I waited until the day before or of the show to get my tickets. And the tickets I get are always on the lower side stage area of the venue or on the floor at the Garden. Those would be some of the “best” seats in the house most people would argue! Finally if tickets werent being held back then why are there ticket drop services for locating tickets that get released?
But what about all the tickets selling below face. 🙂
Actually, you’re wrong. Ticketmaster as an organization holds NO tickets from the on-sale. These decisions are made by the artist, the venue, the management, and/or the promoter. They are NEVER made by Ticketmaster. I worked for TM for 6 years, and I know that for a fact. It’s laughable to me that brokers vehemently claim that non-brokers haven’t a clue, and yet they never seem to get this very simple fact correct.
As for the inventory that’s held back, that’s where you’re wrong as well. The only time the “best” seats in the house are ever offered outside of the on-sale is either a.) in the pre-sale, or b.) during an auction. And again, those decisions are being made by one of the parties previously listed…not by Ticketmaster. The “artist holds” or “promoter holds” of which you speak are typically in the lower “club” levels of an arena, and are rarely – if ever – on the floor. Furthermore, these “holds” typically represent no more than 2-4% of the overall available inventory (pre-sale + on-sale + auction = overall available inventory).
You can blame Ticketmaster all you want, and these days, it’s probably pretty easy. But facts are facts: a.) TM isn’t holding a single ticket back – some other party is; b.) the “holds” are never the best seats in the house; and c.) “holds” only represent a small % of available inventory.
You may not research a show before you target it, but I – and anyone who hopes to build and maintain a viable long term business – do.
What a clown – so – you just buy whatever goes on sale?…
I’ve written off FRONT ROW seats for more than one show – to state that one can remain afloat in this business using the strategy of “get only the best tickets available” is a joke – artist/venue/time of year – and a whole lot more goes into what makes a ticket profitable.
I run roughly a 70% profit margin – that means for every $1.00 I spend, I put $1.70 back in the bank. That’s the cost of the Ticket, Shipping, Stub/Gator/Ebay Fees, Paypal, Cable Bill – *ALL* expenses associated with the sale.
If you are a broker – and I sincerely doubt that you are as you show your ignorance of the business – my guess is you’ll be out of business the moment your credit card statement shows up and you’re still sitting on those Larry The Cable Guy seats in Portland.
My guess is that you are just another of those that have no clue what this business is about – it’s easy to generalize, and assume that brokers are an organized group of people who buy all the best seats and corner the market. Really sorry you didn’t get great seats for the Backstreet Boys, better luck next time – maybe do some ( Here’s that word again ) research next time and be better prepared.
I’m mystified. Let me try to break this down:
1. I didn’t say anything about gasoline or homeowners because it’s irrelevant to the conversation.
2. I don’t know who Irving Azoff is, so I’m clearly not listening to his “lies”.
3. My argument boils down to this: brokers are nothing more than “seat savers”. They save blocks of seats and then charge prices above what the seats would cost, had they been sold directly from the venue to the point-of-sale consumer. Brokers add no value to the market of exchange; it’s not as if they are (unlike gas stations) facilitating the sale of a commodity that normally would not make it into the stream of commerce. They are (legally, and it should stay that way. I don’t support regulation in this regard) roping off seats and charging premiums for admission.
It’s capitalistic. It should remain legal. It’s also bad manners and an asshole move.
I think that brokers need to come together through the NATB which is one of the most reputable mediums that we have today. For brokers to just make remarks, but not do anything about it is un excusable and unneccessary.If you want to continue to be part of this business then you need to be part of the NATB otherwise what good are doing to help this situation.
If you are a fan of Bon Jovi, Billy Joel, Tom Petty or Leonard Cohen to name a few, you should probably copy and paste everything that you are saying and send it to them as well. They are just as guility of scalping tickets, or being “seat savers” as you call them, then any ticket broker is. This was a quote from one of the former heads of ticketmaster:
Artists are have begun to negotiate with “every player” in the ticketing in the business, Moriarty said, whether it’s “Ticketmaster or StubHub or individual and local brokers,” and he believes that more artists will begin placing tickets directly on secondary ticket websites to maximize revenue.
AR, you do not know who Irving Azoff is? Get to him in a minute. A shame you do not know of the weasel. I was using the outrageous prices of gasoline and homes,as an example. How is it relevant, it was an example. I was merely providing it as an example of how everything in this country can be sold for whatever the market will bear, with the exception of tickets. They are treated like a religious article IE: “Sacred Cow” You are just in your own world. Irving is the Ceo of ticketmaster. He would like to see the secondary markets go so he can gouge the consumer, that is YOU and I for every last penny he can squeeze out of us in all those convenience fees. I had a good laugh about you response #2 not knowing Irving and his lies. Yes, he lies, but you just showed me you do not know what you are talking about.
What is completely missed here is the reality that tickets will still sell out just as fast (When 200,000 people want to go to an event and there are 20,000 tickets, it will sell out in seconds).
People who miss out won’t have safe places to buy tickets, such as Ticketsnow or Stubhub and they will wind up finding them on untrustworthy sites like craigslist.
More people will be ripped off.
Way to go Mr. Schumer.
I agree that its unfair to use “bots” (hacking programs) to obtain tickets. I think its also VERY unfair to assume all ticket brokers use this software when in fact VERY few do. Hacking is a Federal offense and as a ticket broker I in no way would ever consider committing a federal offense just to obtain tickets! This idiot is just talking sh*t!
The truth is most ticket brokers buy in the same sales or pre sales as the general public and the only edge we have is that we are faster typist than most. That’s the big industry secret, nothing more!
“It’s simply unfair that you either need to be a computer hacker or made of money to go see Bruce Springsteen or U2 or the Mets or the Yankees”
What an idiot. I wonder if he always proposes bills related to industries he knows nothing about? If so, it would explain why we’re in the mess we are in. I know a lot of people who scored tickets to Bruce Springsteen, U2, the Mets, and Yankees and NONE of them are computer hackers. Second, how is it the fault of brokers that Mets and Yankees tickets are so expensive? It’s not like we set the face value at $ 500 a ticket, like the Mets and Yankees did for some of their tickets. And bleacher seats for the Yankees are going for $ 40 after service charges. I sell mine for $ 40-45 per game for most games. I don’t think you need to be “made of money” to afford that. U2 has tickets as low as $ 35 for most concerts.
In any case, I’m not overly concerned that this bill has much of a chance at passing. Imagine how badly pro sports’ teams season ticket sales will be affected if all of a sudden brokers stopped buying because they had to pay several thousands of dollars for baseball tickets in December that they couldn’t sell until March. Of course, there’s a pretty simple loophole in Schumer’s plan. Pro sports teams aren’t dumb, and the reason they haven’t made any public statements against the secondary market is because they know most of them would lose a considerable amount of money if the secondary market went away.
Anyway, Sen. Schumer, you have a distinguished record of accomplishment throughout your career, but creating legislation based on a knee-jerk reaction to a situation he has not fully grasped and an industry he knows little about. Does he know that the majority of the ticket brokers in this country are not the scale of TicketsNow, but rather small businesses. Take away StubHub, TicketsNow, RazorGator, and a few other of the larger fish, and this bill amounts to little more than an assault on an industry of small business owners.
That’s a stupid analogy. A more appropriate one would be saying if you mail a pound of weed to a buddy three states over, the Post Office isn’t guilty of drug trafficking, you are.
In this case, the artists, promoters, venues, etc. are the ones mailing the weed, and Ticketmaster is the Post Office. The artists et al are instructing their ticket sale facilitator, Ticketmaster, that they are holding back tickets for whatever reason. TM says OK…they’re job is to sell what they’re told to sell. What the artists authorize to do be done with the tickets they hold back is not TM’s liability.
Well, humbly speaking, I happen to have the fastest typist in the world. I read to her the CAPTCHA, and she types it in lightning speed. To get the best seats in the house, you need to have a lightning speed typist to type the CAPTCHA.
I can’t speak for “Trent” or whoever you’re replying to, but I can tell you in my ticket business, which is about 95% pro sports tickets, about two-thirds of my tickets are sold to my customers at a price BELOW what they would pay from the box office. Of that 2/3’s, I’d say most of my customers who buy those ticket save anywhere from 10-40% off what they’d pay from the teams. So maybe not everyone operates this way, but for the majority of the tickets I sell, I’m saving customers money. I’m not arrogant enough to think that makes me some great hero to society, but I like being able to help people save money and doesn’t think that makes me more of an a-hole than some fool shooting off his mouth about an industry he obviously knows little about.
The venue and/or artists typically place a limit on the number of tickets a customer may buy for an event – typically 4 or 8. This is mostly to try to help give everyone a fair chance at tickets. Ticketmaster tries to (or at least used to several years ago, I don’t know if they still do) enforce this even across multiple orders on the internet.
You’re right, and I agree, I can’t believe how much TM is getting nailed to the wall while the people who are really behind these shady acts (the promoters, artists, venues) are getting off scott-free, but there’s a reason for it all.
First of all, TM is NOT blameless at all. They may not be the ones holding back tickets and re-selling them, but they are enabling the artists, promoters, etc. to do it on both fronts…from the primary front, they are enabling the artist to put the best seats on hold (and possibly encouraging it), and from the secondary front, they are using TicketsNow to sell them. They may not be responsible in this mess, but they’re not without blame.
Secondly, I think TM is allowing themselves to take the fall for the promoters, etc. to keep the artists and venues, who after all, are their clients, happy. Now they also have the opportunity to throw brokers under the boss and blame it all on them and thanks to the ignorance of congress, they’ll be able to do just that.
A couple points that get missed in all the hullabulloo
– This bill is designed to allow regular joes access to great inventory that brokers are ostensibly snatching up. First of all Great inventory (first 10 rows) is rarely if ever released. Moreover, if there are 200,000 people that want 20,000 tickets, even without any brokers entering the mix, most of those ‘fans’ will come up empty handed or with crap seats – same as they do now.
2) If you look at available inventory for most shows at arenas (10,000-20,000 seating) you’ll see that a small fraction, between 3-10% is ever available on the secondary market. That means that the vast majority is already being purchased by actual concert goers on the primary market.
Finally, brokers provide a service that allows a Springsteen or U2 or whatever fan to purchase tickets to sit exactly where they want for a show that they want to go to. WIthout brokers, anyone that isn’t on their computer at 9:59 will not have the ability to go see their favoirte band. period.
Beyond intervening in a free market system, this bill has more flaws than I care to even think about.
Funny, no one ever brings that up. If the NATB was a useful organization, brokers would have more of a voice in this and not allow ourselves to be vilified for Ticketmaster’s conflict of interest with TicketsNow, and the shady practices of artists, promoters, and venues.
I’d say about 2/3 of my inventory sells for less than my customers would pay from the box office for the same seats.
That’s just a stupid statement:
“They might be held back at the discretion of the promoters, artist or venue, but ticketmaster is the outlet from which the tickets are being sold.”
So can I blame the post office when I don’t mail my rent check?
Wow, the density here is baffling.
Ok, let’s try this using very simple, easy-to-understand analogies; just as I do for my 6 year-old….
Let’s say you have a TiVo DVR, and you decide to record your favorite show. Your space on the TiVo is low, so you elect to delete your wife’s most recently recorded Oprah episode to ensure there’s enough memory to record your show. Your wife later discovers that her show has been deleted by someone, and she launches an attack on TiVo.
That’s precisely what you’re doing by saying “Ticketmaster is holding tickets back”. Ticketmaster is a technology and service company. Their clients are buildings. The buildings’ clients are artists, promoters, and managers. If the buildings, artists, promoters, or managers decide to sell 99% of the house to drunken donkeys, TM has to oblige that order. In fact, fairly often, Ticketmaster isn’t even aware of what’s been held until someone at the building actually adjusts the holds on the system (usually under the direction of the promoter). Ticketmaster never determines what gets held and what gets sold. That’s not their job. Their job is to provide the technology that enables this type of inventory management…not to make the decisions on how the inventory gets managed.
Now with all of this said, I’m not claiming that under the new world order this situation won’t change. But as it strictly relates to how this process has historically been managed, Ticketmaster has had absolutely no control over what gets sold, and when. Just as TiVo has absolutely no control over what gets recorded/deleted, and when.
Wow! Censorship live! My post disappeared. Can’t take the heat? At least fix your misinformation.
So… Ticketmaster owns Ticketmaster Exchange & TicketsNow (both secondary market sites). Ticketmaster says the secondary market is “evil” but they control half the market with their secondary sites. They want brokers out of business so all that is left are their secondary sites. Let’s see… They post the event, intially; wait two days; and then post the “left over” tickets on their secondary sites. So brokers will not be able to get them because they will not be allowed to buy them for two days. After two days, Ticketmaster will say they are all sold out. Where will the ticket brokers buy from? Their secondary sites! If this is not a monoply in the making, then what is? Makes sense for Irving Azoff to agree with Senator Shumer. It does not make sense to pass unless Irving shuts down Ticketmaster Exchange and TicketsNow. My suggestion is that artists, exclusive of Ticketmaster, expand their presale clubs and allow club members to first purchase from them. Not ask brokers to wait two days in a free market society.
I think that brokers need to come together through the NATB which is one of the most reputable mediums that we have today. For brokers to just make remarks, but not do anything about it is un excusable and unneccessary.If you want to continue to be part of this business then you need to be part of the NATB otherwise what good are doing to help this situation.
How do you know TM holds back blocks of tickets ?
Hey, fellas. Let’s lay off on blaming Ticketmaster, will ya? It’s really not their fault about not releasing the front row floor seats on the day the tickets go on sale. If the Tickmaster’s clients say, “I only want seats so far away from the stage to be release on sale starting today and will continue for three weeks or so”, then their wish is Ticketmaster’s command. Ticketmaster has to follow the clients’ wishes of which seats to release on a specific day and time on a given venue. Otherwise, if Ticketmaster doesn’t allow their clients’ wishes, then Ticketmaster would lose their clients. So, that’s how it goes, fellas. Ticketmaster is just a ticket producer except when they got screwed with TicketsNow. Somehow they made a big mess with TicketsNow.
It’s funny how all this happened right when the economy is going down the toilet. I am a small ticket broker who started a few months ago when my wife and I lost our jobs, almost had our house forclosed on, and barely had enough money to eat. Do they not realize that most people selling these tickets are the regular people out there just trying to get by with their lives. This industry has saved my house, my kids are eating again, and the power has been turned back on at my house. What does Senator Schumer think these tickets aren’t going to sell two days after they go on sale? Most concerts go on sale 3 to 6 months in advance. That still gives us plenty of time to get rid of them one way or another. How are they going to know whether a regular fan or a broker is buying the ticket as soon as it goes on sale? I bet if he saw his wife and children starving at home and couldn’t find a job but this one, he might think differently on this industry.
Like I said the last time you posted this, the NATB is useless. They haven’t spoken up about this at all…while TM and LN are bashing the secondary ticket market to Congress, where the f- has NATB been to give the other side of the story and to expose the fact that all these shady secondary sales from Springsteen are NOT indicative of how the secondary market is run, but merely isolated incidents stemming from a merger (TN/TM) that was a conflict of interest from the start and which artists, venues, promoters and TM themselves have utilized to manipulate both the primary and secondary markets.
Secondly, why the hell is TN even a member of NATB anymore? If the NATB had any credibility, they’d have given TN the boot ages ago.
Very little has been said here about one extremely important aspect of this; brokers cannot sell tickets that have been purchased less than 48 hours from the onsale. Don’t you see what this means ? There are ZERO tickets that have resale value 48 hours AFTER an onsale. Zilch, zippo, nadda. If this passes, formal brokers will have to weasel around the legality of acquiring inventory by loopholes and possibly illegal means. let’s see what the bill really contains, but if it does have this clause, its the death of legally brokering tickets.
I just have a few questions to those who had any affilation from ticketmaster. A number of years ago when ticketmaster monitored sales,why were people denied tickets because of a number of purchases. If they adhered to what was asked for on the site why were tickets taken away because they said they had the authority to sell to whomever they wanted too. A number of years ago I know that ticketmaster and Dillards were given seats by the promoters for themselves and employees.I am not sure if this practice is still going on, but I know it did occur.Seats are always held for the bands, vendors, major contributors, problems,season ticket holders and a few other reasons.These are just a few things that are place.
As a peripheral player/consumer on the secondary market scene, I have to say this discussion thread has been very entertaining. No matter how much mud is thrown back and forth the true reality is the current secondary market model is broken and headed for extinction. Digital delivery of tickets via PDA, email, credit card is the future and ticket brokers will eventually be removed from the distribution equation.
Here’s an analogy of the unfortunate reality: Large holders of tickets are Blockbuster Video, Marketplaces are NetFlix and the future is video on demand.
The percentage of ticket brokers still in business 2-3 will be minimal. Best of luck to all – I would suggest a career change before the paradigm passes you by.
I imagine this won’t be popular, but it is right in front of this industry.
Brokers are leeches; spare me the Depression-era violins and histrionics. Go away and migrate to the Dust Bowl if you have to. Have a nice day!
Wow! And you said the other comment was stupid?
You guys are not understanding the true point and your comparisons are ridiculous. If your wife calls TiVo they are not going to go to the government and say, “We blame all your husbands for deleting your Oprah shows. Women of America the fault of all deleted shows from TiVos across the country lies in the hands of your husbands. We are going to pass legislation that would ban all of them from using a TiVo again.” Unless you are in the tickets industry you would probably not know that tickets are held back. You would also probably not know that when a concert or event goes onsale you are probably trying to purchase a small percent of available tickets. Lets use U2 as an example. Yesterday U2 tickets went on sale and if you are not an average concert goer you would have thought all 45,000 seats for each show were going on sale. You try to get tickets and the best you come up with is 200’s or 300’s. Schumer is saying that all the bad ticket brokers bought up all the good seats the minute it went on sale. Maybe if he did a little research he would have realized that the majority of the tickets that were sold already were done through the U2 fan club presale. So it is not about blaming Ticketmaster about holding tickets I am just saying that they need to make it clear that the best seats in the house are not always being bought up by the brokers. Alot of times the were sold early or sold by the artist in the secondary market. They are solely resting blame on the secondary market when they are hiding some truthes themselves